Thursday, October 19, 2006
Why did Israel invade Lebanon?
This is a question that nobody has really answered, or even asked, in the wake of the Israeli defeat. None of the capabilities that Hizballah showed in the war were new. They were the same capabilities that drove Israel out the first time, with the exception that Iran noticed that their TOW's weren't effective against Merkavas in the late 1990's, and developed a tandem warhead that would take out Merkavas and provided some to Hizballah for this one. I am reading a paper published by the U.S. Army War College in 2000 about the factors that led to Israel's defeat in that earlier war. It is very, very familiar.
What the war showed is that a detirmined irregular force can bog a modern mechanized army down into a war of attrition -- a war that a modern mechanized army is ill-suited to fight due to simple cost factors (a Merkava costs over 5 million dollars, an Iranian anti-tank missile costs maybe $5,000). But we already knew that. We knew that in 2000, when Hizballah drove Israel out the last time. We new that in 1990, when the Afghans drove out the Soviets. We knew that in 1973, when the Vietnamese drove out the Americans. We knew what the outcome was going to be this time too -- if Israel couldn't defeat Hizballah in 2000, there was no way they'd do it in 2006 after Hizballah had six years to prepare for the invasion. And we got the expected outcome -- a disaster for Israel.
Why, then, did Israel do it? I think it is because Israel is a failed state. Their internal politics is in chaos. Their economy is in free fall. All the best and brightest have fled to the United States or even back to Europe from whence they came, leaving behind mostly the dregs that the US or Europe do not want. One Israeli immigrant in the U.S. that I talk to says that in essense, Israel is now a concentration camp for the world's unwanted Jews, the Jews that nobody else will accept into their own countries. Like many failed states before them, the ruler tried to re-unite the nation by embarking upon a foreign war and getting a "rally behind your leader" effect. Who to invade, then? Why, the weakest state on their borders, of course -- Lebanon. And so they did. And, as in 2000, got driven out again, for the same reasons they were driven out in 2000 -- because a modern mechanized army cannot invade a mountainous nation and win a war of attrition against an irregular army fighting a defense in depth. The Soviets learned this in Afghanistan, and the Israelis had learned this in 2000 -- and promptly forgot it. But a failed state does not pay much attention to those "fact" thingies.
The scary thing is that this failed state has nuclear weapons. If one of the more batshit-crazy factions in Israel get ahold of those weapons as the Israeli state continues its decline...
- Badtux the Observant Penguin
Posted by: BadTux / 10/19/2006 01:48:00 AM
" Why did Israel invade Lebanon?"
That's easy, I'm surrounded by fucking idiots.
# posted by BBC : 19/10/06 1:59 AM
They want to bomb Iran but don't want to have to deal with Hamas and Hizbullah firing (or even advancing) over their borders at the same time. So a little preemption was in order. Or so they hoped.
If Hizbullah had collapsed, Syria and Iran would now have been well and truly bombed (and perhaps Israel would be a smoking hole).
Oh, and there's the water, of course.
If Israel is going to survive it needs water from Lebanon and (cheap) oil from Kurdistan.
It is, indeed, a failed State economically. That the Arab neighbours are going to drive them into the sea is bullshit. All the Arabs have to do is sit back and wait some more and Israel will implode and push its own lifeboats out to sea.
There is already a net migration loss and it's getting worse.
Things are desperate for the Israelis. They need resources to use and sell and more land to steal and give to immigrants to keep the population swelling.
The threat to Israel's existence is economic not military and always has been.
# posted by : 19/10/06 3:19 AM
I could have saved a lot of words and simply said, "The answer to your question is that the Israelis are desperate"
# posted by : 19/10/06 3:21 AM
ahh...but they don't have nukes...or so one would think if one watched the recent network coverage of the North Korea thing. They listed the present countries which possess nukes...all three networks omitting Israel. WTF? And...why doesn't Israel...among all the NUKULAR countries allow inspections? Beats Me!
# posted by moderate : 19/10/06 5:20 AM
Not only economically, griffon. Politically too. When they accepted those million Soviet "Jews" back in the 80's they weren't thinking, they were reacting from racism to fill their country with white bodies to offset the increasing number of brown bodies they saw being born within their borders. But politically it has been a disaster, because these Soviet "Jews" were about as Jewish as you or I. Being able to present forged papers showing a Yid grandmother in order to escape an imploding empire (papers easily obtainable via bribery of corrupt Soviet-era officals) is hardly the same as ever having culturally or otherwise been a Jew. The Russian "Jews" are as interested in being Israelis as they are interested in being dogs, they want to be Americans, they got sent to Israel by the Americans because America didn't want them, so they have to be "Israeli" for now, but they really want to be Americans and live the indolent and wasteful lifestyle that they think Americans live, and if they can't be American in America, they will try to be American in Israel -- indolent, apathetic, willfully ignorant, violent, and with no real democratic values.
Hmm, sounds a lot like Americans there, eh? But add in the fact that these people emigrated from a socialist country and expect the same from Israel, and are demographically large enough that, under Israel's proportional representation system they must be catered to by any party which wants to obtain a majority in the Knesset, and you begin to see the magnitude of the economic disaster. They had no experience with a capitalistic society, no work ethic, no initiative, and have been nothing but a drag on Israel's economy. None of which can be officially admitted, of course. But which, I suppose, is why Israel needed a war, even one that they knew beforehand that they'd lose just like the last time...
-Badtux the Observant Penguin
# posted by BadTux : 19/10/06 8:39 AM
oh sorry - i asked myself that quesiton
and then looking at a map
i answered it
baby bush ask israel to start moving in from the left and close the gap we needed
to take over all the oil in the region..
seriously -- look at the map
# posted by azgoddess : 19/10/06 11:33 AM
msybe you can get this url
# posted by azgoddess : 19/10/06 11:35 AM
The problem, AZGoddess, is that Israel *knew* they were going to lose this war, because nothing had changed since 2000 when they lost the last time except that Hizballah got stronger. So why did they do it? Did the Busheviks blackmail them somehow into doing something they knew was foolhardy? Or was it because of the internal political pressures of an imploding failed state causing them to act in irrational and self-destructive manner? Or all of the above?
Curious penguins want to know... maybe.
- Badtux the Curious Penguin
# posted by BadTux : 19/10/06 1:11 PM
- Name: BadTux
- Location: Some iceberg, South Pacific, Antarctica
I am a black and white and yellow multicolored penguin making his way as best he can in a world of monochromic monkeys.
View my complete profile
April 2004 / December 2004 / January 2005 / February 2005 / March 2005 / April 2005 / May 2005 / June 2005 / July 2005 / August 2005 / September 2005 / October 2005 / November 2005 / December 2005 / January 2006 / February 2006 / March 2006 / April 2006 / May 2006 / June 2006 / July 2006 / August 2006 / September 2006 / October 2006 / November 2006 / December 2006 / January 2007 / February 2007 / March 2007 / April 2007 / May 2007 / June 2007 / July 2007 / August 2007 /
Bill Richardson: Because what America needs is a competent fat man with bad hair as President (haven't we had enough incompetent pretty faces?)
Cost of the War in Iraq